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41.5 Questioner: In your last statement did you mean that the sixth-density entities are actually creating the manifestation of the sun in their density? Could you explain what you meant by that?
Ra: I am Ra. In this density some entities whose means of reproduction is fusion may choose to perform this portion of experience as part of the beingness of the sun body. Thus you may think of portions of the light that you receive as offspring of the generative expression of sixth-density love.
41.4 Questioner: In trying to build an understanding from the start, you might say, starting with intelligent infinity and getting to our present condition of being, I am having some difficulty, but I think I should go back and investigate our sun since it is the sub-Logos that creates all that we experience in this particular planetary system.
Will you give me a description of the sun, of our sun?
Ra: I am Ra. This is a query which is not easily answered in your language, for the sun has various aspects in relation to intelligent infinity, to intelligent energy, and to each density of each planet, as you call these spheres. Moreover, these differences extend into the metaphysical or time/space part of your creation.
In relationship to intelligent infinity, the sun body is, equally with all parts of the infinite creation, part of that infinity.
In relation to the potentiated intelligent infinity which makes use of intelligent energy, it is the offspring, shall we say, of the Logos for a much larger number of sub-Logoi. The relationship is hierarchical in that the sub-Logos uses the intelligent energy in ways set forth by the Logos and uses its free will to co-create the, shall we say, full nuances of your densities as you experience them.
In relationship to the densities, the sun body may physically, as you would say, be seen to be a large body of gaseous elements undergoing the processes of fusion and radiating heat and light.
Metaphysically, the sun achieves a meaning to fourth through seventh density according to the growing abilities of entities in these densities to grasp the living creation and co-entity, or other-self, nature of this sun body. Thus by the sixth density the sun may be visited and inhabited by those dwelling in time/space and may even be partially created from moment to moment by the processes of sixth-density entities in their evolution.
19.12 Questioner: This seems to be a carefully planned or engineered stage of development. Can you tell me anything of the origin of this plan for the development?
Ra: I am Ra. We go back to previous information. Consider and remember the discussion of the Logos. With the primal distortion of free will, each galaxy developed its own Logos. This Logos has complete free will in determining the paths of intelligent energy which promote the lessons of each of the densities given the conditions of the planetary spheres and the sun bodies.
65.17 Questioner: Then we deal with an entity that has not yet formed a social memory but is yet an entity just as one of us can be called a single entity. Can we continue this observation of the, shall I say, conglomerate entity through the galactic entity, or shall I say, small planetary system type of— Let me try to phrase it this way. Could I look at a single sun in its planetary system as an entity and then look at a major galaxy with its billions of stars as an entity? Can I continue this extrapolation in this way?
Ra: I am Ra. You can but not within the framework of third-density space/time.
Let us attempt to speak upon this interesting subject. In your space/time you and your peoples are the parents of that which is in the womb. The Earth, as you call it, is ready to be born and the delivery is not going smoothly. When this entity has become born it will be instinct with the social memory complex of its parents which have become fourth-density positive. In this density there is a broader view.
You may begin to see your relationship to the Logos or sun with which you are most intimately associated. This is not the relationship of parent to child but of Creator, that is Logos, to Creator that is the mind/body/spirit complex, as Logos. When this realization occurs you may then widen the field of “eyeshot,” if you will, infinitely recognizing parts of the Logos throughout the one infinite creation and feeling, with the roots of Mind informing the intuition, the parents aiding their planets in evolution in reaches vast and unknown in the creation, for this process occurs many, many times in the evolution of the creation as an whole.
66.26 Questioner: I assume that this energy then, this spiraling light energy, is somehow absorbed by the energy field of the body. Is this somehow connected to the indigo energy center? Am I correct in this guess?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The properties of this energy are such as to move within the field of the physical complex and irradiate each cell of the space/time body and, as this is done, irradiate also the time/space equivalent which is closely aligned with the space/time yellow-ray body. This is not a function of the etheric body or of free will. This is a radiation much like your sun’s rays. Thus it should be used with care.
54.5 Questioner: Now, I am assuming that the different frequencies are separated, as we have said, into the seven colors, that each of these colors may be the basic frequency for a sub-Logos of our sun Logos and that a sub-Logos or, shall we say, an individual may activate any one of these basic frequency or colors and use the body that is generated from the activation of that frequency or color. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. If we grasp your query correctly this is not correct in that the sub-sub-Logos resides, not in dimensionalities, but only in co-Creators, or mind/body/spirit complexes.
29.10 Questioner: Okay. Do the sub-Logos, such as our sun, do any of them— in our major galaxy— do they have a metaphysical polarity, shall we say, positive or negative as we’ve been using the term?
Ra: I am Ra. As you use the term, this is not so. Entities through the level of planetary have the strength of intelligent infinity through the use of free will, going through the actions of beingness. The polarity is not, thusly, as you understand polarity. It is only when the planetary sphere begins harmonically interacting with mind/body complexes, and more especially mind/body/spirit complexes, that planetary spheres take on distortions due to the thought complexes of entities interacting with the planetary entity. The creation of the One Infinite Creator does not have the polarity you speak of.
61.3 Questioner: Can you expand on what you meant by the “cycling instreamings of energy?”
Ra: I am Ra. There are four types of cycles which are those given in the moment of entry into incarnation. There are in addition more cosmic and less regularized inpourings which, from time to time, affect a sensitized mind/body/spirit complex. The four rhythms are, to some extent, known among your peoples and are called biorhythms.
There is a fourth cycle which we may call the cycle of gateway of magic of the adept or of the spirit. This is a cycle which is completed in approximately eighteen of your diurnal cycles.
The cosmic patterns are also a function of the moment of incarnative entrance and have to do with your satellite you call the moon, your planets of this galaxy, the galactic sun, and in some cases the instreamings from the major galactic points of energy flow.
77.12 Questioner: That is correct. I am asking with respect to this particular Logos, our sun, in creating the experience of its planetary system and those sub-Logoi of it.
Ra: I am Ra. This query has substance. We shall begin by turning to an observation of a series of concept complexes of which you are familiar as the tarot.
The philosophy was to create a foundation, first of mind, then of body, and then of spiritual complex. Those concept complexes you call the tarot lie then in three groups of seven: the mind cycle, one through seven; the physical complex cycle, eight through fourteen; the spiritual complex cycle, fifteen through twenty-one. The last concept complex may best be termed The Choice.
Upon the foundation of transformation of each complex, with free will guided by the root concepts offered in these cycles, the Logos offered this density the basic architecture of a building and constructing and synthesizing of data culminating in The Choice.
67.28 Questioner: Thank you very much. I have a statement here that I will quickly read and have you comment on the accuracy or inaccuracy. In general, the archetypical mind is a representation of facets of the One Infinite Creation. The Father archetype corresponds to the male or positive aspect of electromagnetic energy and is active, creative, and radiant as is our local sun. The Mother archetype corresponds to the female or negative aspect of electromagnetic energy and is receptive or magnetic as is our Earth as it receives the sun’s rays and brings forth life via third-density fertility. The Prodigal Son or the Fool archetype corresponds to every entity who seems to have strayed from unity and seeks to return to the One Infinite Creator. The Devil archetype represents the illusion of the material world and the appearance of evil but is more accurately the provider of catalyst for the growth of each entity within the third-density illusion. The Magician, Saint, Healer, or Adept corresponds to the higher self and, because of the balance within its energy centers, pierces the illusion to contact intelligent infinity and thereby demonstrates mastery of the catalyst of third density. The archetype of Death symbolizes the transition of an entity from the yellow-ray body to the green-ray body either temporarily between incarnations or, more permanently, at harvest.
Each archetype presents an aspect of the One Infinite Creation to teach the individual mind/body/spirit complex according to the calling or the electromagnetic configuration of mind of the entity. Teaching is done via the intuition. With proper seeking or mind configuration, the power of will uses the spirit as a shuttle to contact the appropriate archetypical aspect necessary for the teach/learning. In the same way each of the other informers of intuition are contacted. They are hierarchical and proceed from the entity’s own subconscious mind to group or planetary mind, to guides, to higher self, to archetypical mind, to cosmic mind or intelligent infinity. Each is contacted by the spirit serving as shuttle according to the harmonized electromagnetic configuration of the seeker’s mind and the information sought.
Will you please comment on the accuracy of these observations and correct any errors or fill in any omissions?
Ra: I am Ra. The entity has been using transferred energy for most of this session due to its depleted physical levels. We shall begin this rather complex answer which is interesting but do not expect to finish it. Those portions which we do not respond to we ask that you re-question us upon at a working in your future.
54.7 Questioner: Now, I have made these statements just to get to the basic question I wish to ask. It is a difficult question to ask.
We have, coming from the sub-Logos we call our sun, intelligent energy, which then forms, and we’ll take as an example a single sub-sub-logos which is a mind/body/spirit complex. This intelligent energy is somehow modulated or distorted, so that it ends up as a mind/body/spirit complex with certain distortions of personality that it is necessary for the mind/body/spirit complex or the mental portion of that complex to undistort in order to conform once more precisely with the original intelligent energy.
First, I want to know if my statement on that is correct, and, secondly, I want to know why this is the way that it is; if there is any answer other than the first distortion of the Law of One for this?
Ra: I am Ra. This statement is substantially correct. If you will penetrate the nature of the first distortion in its application of self knowing self, you may begin to distinguish the hallmark of an Infinite Creator, variety. Were there no potentials for misunderstanding and, therefore, understanding, there would be no experience.
75.2 Questioner: I felt that this session was advisable before the instrument has her hospital experience. She wished to ask a few questions, if possible, about those.
First, is there anything that the instrument or we might do to improve the hospital experience or to aid the instrument in any way with respect to this?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes. There are ways of aiding the mental/emotional state of this entity with the notation that this is so only for this entity or one of like distortions. There is also a general thing which may be accomplished to improve the location which is called the hospital.
The first aiding has to do with the vibration of the ritual with which this entity is most familiar and which this entity has long used to distort its perception of the One Infinite Creator. This is an helpful thing at any point in the diurnal period but is especially helpful as your sun body removes itself from your local sight.
The general improvement of the place of the performance of the ritual of the purification of the place is known. We may note that the distortion towards love, as you call this spiritual/emotional complex which is felt by each for this entity, will be of aid whether this is expressed or unmanifest as there is no protection greater than love.
28.6 Questioner: When does individualization or the individualized portion of consciousness come into play? How does this individualization occur and at what point does individualized consciousness take over in working on the basic light?
Ra: I am Ra. You remain carefully in the area of creation itself. In this process we must further confuse you by stating that the process by which free will acts upon potential intelligent infinity to become focused intelligent energy takes place without the space/time of which you are so aware as it is your continuum experience.
The experience or existence of space/time comes into being after the individuation process of Logos or Love has been completed and the physical universe, as you would call it, has coalesced or begun to draw inward while moving outward to the extent that that which you call your sun bodies have in their turn created timeless chaos coalescing into what you call planets, these vortices of intelligent energy spending a large amount of what you would call first density in a timeless state, the space/time realization being one of the learn/teachings of this density of beingness.
Thus we have difficulty answering your questions with regard to time and space and their relationship to the, what you would call, original creation which is not a part of space/time as you can understand it.
93.8 Questioner: There seems to be no large hint of polarity in this drawing except for the possible coloration of the many cups in the wheel. Part of them are colored black and part of the cup is white. Would this indicate that each experience has within it a possible negative or positive use of that experience that is randomly generated by this seeming wheel of fortune?
Ra: I am Ra. Your supposition is thoughtful. However, it is based upon an addition to the concept complex which is astrological in origin. Therefore, we request that you retain the concept of polarity but release the cups from their strictured form. The element you deal with is not in motion in its original form but is indeed the abiding sun which, from the spirit, shines in protection over all catalyst available from the beginning of complexity to the discerning mind/body/spirit complex.
Indeed you may, rather, find polarity expressed, firstly, by the many opportunities offered in the material illusion which is imaged by the not-white and not-dark square upon which the entity of the image is seated, secondly, upon the position of that seated entity. It does not meet opportunity straight on but glances off to one side or another. In the image you will note a suggestion that the offering of the illusion will often seem to suggest the opportunities lying upon the left-hand path or, as you might refer to it more simply, the service-to-self path. This is a portion of the nature of the Catalyst of the Mind.
30.14 Questioner: Thank you. Can you give me a brief history of the metaphysical principles of the development of each of our planets around the sun and their function with respect to evolution of beings?
Ra: I am Ra. We shall give you a metaphysical description only of those planets upon which individual mind/body/spirit complexes have been, are, or shall be experienced. You may understand the other spheres to be a part of the Logos.
We take the one known as Venus. This planetary sphere was one of rapid evolution. It is our native earth and the rapidity of [the progress of] the mind/body/spirit complexes upon its surface was due to harmonious interaction.
Upon the entity known to you as Mars, as you have already discussed, this entity was stopped in mid-third density, thus being unable to continue in progression due to the lack of hospitable conditions upon the surface. This planet shall be undergoing healing for some of your space/time millennia.
The planet which you dwell upon has a metaphysical history well known to you and you may ask about it if you wish. However, we have spoken to a great degree upon this subject.
The planet known as Saturn has a great affinity for the infinite intelligence and thus it has been dwelled upon in its magnetic fields of time/space by those who wish to protect your system.
The planetary entity known to you as Uranus is slowly moving through the first density and has the potential of moving through all densities.
77.17 Questioner: Now, would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, there was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function only of this positive polarization evolving from our original creation of sub-Logos?
Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true-color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.
Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.
Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.
2.6 Questioner: Consider them asked. I mean, I don’t have anything to go on. What is the proper use of this instrument? What should we do to maximize her ability to… comfort, rejuvenation, etc.?
Ra: I am Ra. We are pleased that you asked this question for it is not our understanding that we have the right/duty to share our perceptions on any subject but philosophy without direct question. However, this mind/body/spirit is not being correctly used and therefore is experiencing unnecessary distortions of body in the area of fatigue.
The vibrations may well be purified by a simple turning to the circle of One and the verbal vibration while doing so of the following dialogue:
Question: “What is the Law?”
Answer: “The Law is One.”
Question: “Why are we here?”
Answer: “We seek the Law of One.”
Question: “Why do we seek Ra?”
Answer: “Ra is an humble messenger of the Law of One.”
Both together: “Rejoice then and purify this place in the Law of One. Let no thought-form* enter the circle we have walked about this instrument, for the Law is One.”
The instrument at this time should be in trance. The proper alignment is the head pointed twenty degrees north-by-northeast. This is the direction from which the newer or New Age distortions of love/light, which are less distorted, are emanating from, and this instrument will find comfort therein. This is a sensitive instrument, by which we mean the distortions which enter her mind/body/spirit complex come from any of her senses. Thus, it is well to do the following:
Place at the entity’s head a virgin chalice of water.
To the center, the book most closely aligned with the instrument’s mental distortions which are allied most closely with the Law of One, that being the Bible that she touches most frequently.
To the other side of the Bible, a small amount of cense, or incense, in a virgin censer.
To the rear of the book symbolizing One, opened to the Gospel of John, Chapter One, a white candle.
The instrument would be strengthened by the wearing of a white robe. The instrument shall be covered and prone, the eyes covered.
We feel that, though this is a complex of activity/circumstance and may seem very distorted from a purposeful teach/learning experience, these elaborations on the technique of trance will ease the mind distortions of those about the instrument as they perceive improvement in the instrument’s distortions with regard to fatigue. We add only that if these teach/learning sessions are held during time/space during which your sun-body does not light your room that it is best to call the instrument before the lighting of the illuminatory mechanism.
I am Ra. I leave you in the glory and the peace of the One Creator. Rejoice in the love/light, and go forth in the power of the One Creator. In joy, we leave you. Adonai*.
10.15 Questioner: [I] was wondering about the advent of the civilization called Atlantis and Lemuria*, the way these civilizations occurred, and where did they come from [inaudible] civilizations?
Ra: I am Ra. This is the last question of this work. The civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria* were not one but two. Let us look first at the Mu entities.
They were beings of a somewhat primitive nature, but those who had very advanced spiritual distortions. The civilization was part of this cycle, experienced early within the cycle at a time of approximately five three oh oh oh, fifty-three thousand [53,000] of your years ago. It was an helpful and harmless place which was washed beneath the ocean during a readjustment of your sphere’s tectonic plates through no action of their own. They set out those who survived and reached many places in what you call Russia, North America, and South America. The Indians of whom you have come to feel some sympathy in your social complex distortions are the descendants of these entities. Like the other incarnates of this cycle, they came from elsewhere. However, these particular entities were largely drawn from a second-density planet which had some difficulty, due to the age of its sun, in achieving third-density life conditions. This planet was from the galaxy Deneb*.
The Atlantean race was a very conglomerate social complex which began to form approximately three one oh oh oh, thirty-one thousand [31,000] years in the past of your space/time continuum illusion. It was a slow growing and very agrarian society until approximately one five oh oh oh, fifteen thousand [15,000] of your years ago. It reached quickly a high technological understanding which caused it to be able to use intelligent infinity in a less informative manner. We may add that they used intelligent energy as well, manipulating greatly the natural influxes of the indigo or pineal ray from divine or infinite energy. Thus, they were able to create life forms. This they began to do instead of healing and perfecting their own mind/body/spirit complexes, turning their distortions towards what you may call the negative.
Approximately eleven thousand [11,000] of your years ago, the first of the, what you call, wars, caused approximately forty percent of this population to leave the density by means of disintegration of the body. The second and most devastating of the conflicts occurred approximately one oh eight two one, ten thousand eight hundred twenty-one [10,821] years in the past according to your illusion. This created an earth-changing configuration and the large part of Atlantis was no more, having been inundated. Three of the positively oriented of the Atlantean groups left this geographical locus before that devastation, placing themselves in the mountain areas of what you call Tibet, what you call Peru, and what you call Turkey.
Do you have any brief questions before we close this meeting?
23.6 Questioner: I see. Then at this time you did not contact them. Can you tell me the same— answer the same questions I just asked with respect to your next attempt to contact the Egyptians?
Ra: I am Ra. The next attempt was prolonged. It occurred over a period of time. The nexus, or center, of our efforts was a decision upon our parts that there was a sufficient calling to attempt to walk among your peoples as brothers.
We laid this plan before the Council of Saturn, offering ourselves as service-oriented Wanderers of the type which land directly upon the inner planes without incarnative processes. Thus we emerged, or materialized, in physical-chemical complexes representing as closely as possible our natures, this effort being to appear as brothers and spend a limited amount of time as teachers of the Law of One, for there was an ever-stronger interest in the sun body, and this vibrates in concordance with our particular distortions.
We discovered that for each word we could utter, there were thirty impressions we gave by our very being, which confused those entities we had come to serve. After a short period we removed ourselves from these entities and spent much time attempting to understand how best to serve those to whom we had offered ourselves in love/light.
The ones who were in contact with that geographical entity, which you know of as Atlantis, had conceived of the potentials for healing by use of the pyramid-shape entities. In considering this and making adjustments for the differences in the distortion complexes of the two geographical cultures, as you would call them, we went before the Council again, offering this plan to the Council as an aid to the healing and the longevity of those in the area you know of as Egypt. In this way we hoped to facilitate the learning process as well as offering philosophy articulating the Law of One. Again the Council approved.
Approximately eleven thousand [11,000] of your years ago we entered, by thought-form, your— we correct this instrument. We sometimes have difficulty due to low vitality. Approximately eight five zero zero [8,500] years ago, having considered these concepts carefully, we returned, never having left in thought, to the thought-form areas of your vibrational planetary complex and considered for some of your years, as you measure time, how to appropriately build these structures.
The first, the Great Pyramid, was formed approximately six thousand [6,000] of your years ago. Then, in sequence, after this performing by thought of the building or architecture of the Great Pyramid using the more, shall we say, local or earthly material rather than thought-form material to build other pyramidical structures. This continued for approximately fifteen hundred [1,500] of your years.
Meanwhile, the information concerning initiation and healing by crystal was being given. The one known as “Akhenaten” was able to perceive this information without significant distortion and for a time, moved, shall we say, heaven and earth in order to invoke the Law of One and to order the priesthood of these structures in accordance with the distortions of initiation and true compassionate healing. This was not to be long-lasting.
At this entity’s physical dissolution from your third-density physical plane, as we have said before, our teachings became quickly perverted, our structures returning once again to the use of the so-called “royal” or those with distortions towards power.
2.2 Questioner: Could you tell us something of your historical background, your earlier times in the illusion and the time state[?] contact, possibly your incarnation on this planet that you spoke of before, and contact with earlier races on this planet? Then we would have something to start with in writing this book.
Ra: I am Ra. We are aware that your mind/body is calculating the proper method of performing the task of creating a teach/learning instrument. We are aware that you find our incarnate, as you call it, state of interest. We waited for a second query so as to emphasize that the time/space of several thousand of your years creates a spurious type of interest. Thus in giving this information, we ask the proper lack of stress be placed upon our experiences in your local space/time*. The teach/learning which is our responsibility is philosophical rather than historical. We shall now proceed with your request which is harmless if properly evaluated.
We are those of the Confederation who eleven thousand of your years ago came to two of your planetary cultures which were at that time closely in touch with the creation of the One Creator. It was our naïve belief that we could teach/learn by direct contact and the free will distortions of individual feeling or personality were in no danger, we thought, of being disturbed as these cultures were already closely aligned with a[n] all-embracing belief in the live-ness or consciousness of all. We came and were welcomed by the peoples whom we wished to serve. We attempted to aid them in technical ways having to do with the healing of mind/body/spirit complex distortions through the use of the crystal, appropriate to the distortion, placed within a certain appropriate series of ratios of time/space material. Thus were the pyramids created.
We found that the technology was reserved largely for those with the effectual mind/body distortion of power. This was not intended by the Law of One. We left your peoples. The group that was to work with those in the area of South America, as you call that portion of your sphere, gave up not so easily. They returned. We did not. However, we have never left your vibration due to our responsibility for the changes in consciousness we had first caused and then found distorted in ways not relegated to the Law of One. We attempted to contact the rulers of the land to which we had come, that land which you call Egypt, or in some areas, the Holy Land.
In the Eighteenth Dynasty, as it is known in your records of space/time* distortions, we were able to contact a pharaoh, as you would call him. The man was small in life-experience on your plane and was a… what this instrument would call, Wanderer. Thus, this mind/body/spirit complex received our communication distortions and was able to blend his distortions with our own. This young entity had been given a vibratory complex of sound which vibrated in honor of a prosperous god, as this mind/body complex, which we call instrument for convenience, would call “Amun.” The entity decided that this name, being in honor of one among many gods, was not acceptable for inclusion in his vibratory sound complex. Thus, he changed his name to one which honored the sun disc. This distortion, called “Aten,” was a close distortion to our reality as we understand our own nature of mind/body/spirit complex distortion. However, it does not come totally into alignment with the intended teach/learning which was sent. This entity, Akhenaten, became convinced that the vibration of One was the true spiritual vibration and thus decreed the Law of One.
However, this entity’s beliefs were accepted by very few. His priests gave lip service only, without the spiritual distortion towards seeking. The peoples continued in their beliefs. When this entity was no longer in this density, again the polarized beliefs in the many gods came into their own and continued so until the one known as Muhammad delivered the peoples into a more intelligible distortion of mind/body/spirit relationships.
Do you have a more detailed interest at this time?
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